On the Facebook UCG United We Stand discussion board is a page for “I Support the Letter”. This signature page is to show support for the letter that the elders who signed the Open Letter to Dennis Luker. Granted, it is informal, but it is very symbolic. It only had about 225 last night, and as of this morning is about 420!
If you are on Facebook, a member (or recent ex-member) of UCG and if you support the Open Letter, this might be your last chance to have your voice heard, seeing as the current administration is more concerned about squashing dissent rather than investigating core issues.
So much for seeing you at a UCG Feast site next year. Have you started scouting for a new denomination, once they kick you out? :-/
I understand the unabomber's compound in Montana is for sale for a measly 67k if an enterprising coger wants to start a group and get away from it all.
@Richard: If they kick me out, there is another COG not far from here. Of course, the question becomes who will they kick out first? Me or the elders who signed the original?
"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."
It's a small world, though. Perhaps we will meet some other way.
If I understood correctly, the letter indicated that those elders had no problem with UCG's form of governance–but were more focused on the present councils conduct and their lack of deep Scriptural and doctrinal understanding. Have I misunderstood—?? If not, then these elders are also lacking Scriptural understanding as to how the Government in the COG, both Old and New Testaments are presented. isn't one corrupt organization just as good as another?
Where are the real Shepherds of Christ? were any of them even in UCG???
I am beginning to wonder how corrupt the whole ministry of UCG has become.
Anony Jon
@Anony Jon: I'm not going to complain about forms of government. They are all subject to corruption. And, if the behavior of the council towards other ministers and members is ungodly and hypocritical, then how do you come to the conclusion that those who would oppose it are also corrupt?
Mind you, it could be that some are. After all, we are told in Scripture that the tares will be amongst the wheat until the end.
As I am finally coming to "the end" of my association UCG, I am hesitant about jumping into another organization. I am sure that "opportunists" abound and are quite eager for the fall out to join with them. Having been under one man rule as well as the opposite (supposedly) I am in need of sincere study of church governance. I am in no frame of mind to be lorded over or have myself politicized out of an organization.
HWA said those liberal ministers wanted unity–but unity to do their own thing is not unity with God–something to that affect. Ministers of the baptist organization would be in opposition against the Catholics on several things–but there would be a few places where they would agree.
Many of the names on that list apposing the COE
are also known to have apposed any top down authority in Scripture–yet the apostle Paul clearly indicated that he had authority over Tim. & Titus and other evangelists and elders to the Gentiles.
Jesus Christ himself singled out three of the twelve–taking them aside for various reasons and Peter definitely was looked upon as a leader among the twelve.
Jesus patterned His choice of twelve and the 70 as Moses did in the OT–there are numerous accounts of top down leadership–but many of those men on the list (i repeat) do not agree with that.
Are they to be followed when they disagree with Scripture?? (1Cor.11:1)
Is it just a matter of one mans interpretation over another?? I am personally hoping that a new organization will come on the scene that is more in line with Scriptural guidelines and their fruits are quickly visible as servants of Christ.
Where i have congregated in UCG, the fellowship is strained, people are divided on what to believe and some are already looking at other groups a viable place to go. yet all of those people would calm down quickly if there was a good strong leader who would stand up and tell it like it is.
I am sure others can identify with what I am saying. We all want a peaceful environment to worship God in—but where is it right now??
Anony Jon
Anonymous wrote: "As I am finally coming to 'the end' of my association UCG, I am hesitant about jumping into another organization. I am sure that 'opportunists' abound and are quite eager for the fall out to join with them."
Unfortunately, we've already seen that. David Pack was rather brazen about it.
However, not all are. In fact, there are some groups that are paying little attention to what is going on in UCG, from what I've seen. It isn't because they do not care, but it is rather because they are looking after what they should be doing.
In spite of what HWA believed, there have always been alternative organizations. In fact, some of them split off even while he was alive, and a couple of them are still left. Not all of them have gone off the theological cliff, either.
"Having been under one man rule as well as the opposite (supposedly) I am in need of sincere study of church governance. I am in no frame of mind to be lorded over or have myself politicized out of an organization."
One man rule does not remove all politics, and having balloting does not remove lording it over others, it would appear.
@Anony Jon: Then how do you explain the Book of Judges, where there was concurrent leadership and sometimes (apparently) none at all?
The way I understand it, (not saying I am perfectly right about it and have nothing left to learn) but when Joshua died the elders that "knew the works of the Lord"-most likely appointed by Moses-took over. But if you read it carefully it seems to say that they went to God and asked God to show them who would be first among them, taking the lead. Judah was chosen to be the lead tribe-so to me that obviously means those top leaders in Judah were looked on to give direction and take the lead in conquering the land. When that generation of the elders in Israel died out, the next generation went off the deep end and God left them to their own choices. This went into the time of Judges and God was only involved with them when they turned back to Him and cried out for deliverance. As soon as the leader or Judge God set in place died they went off again. This does not deny government from the top down even if it was a woman (Deborah) or more than one leader, if they were appointed by God. Some claim there was voting in the NT Church-but I do not believe it. Jesus Christ did not change things that He, as God, set in motion under Moses. I have examined several situations that some claim was voting but when put to the test and scrutiny of the true intent of the verses-it cannot be because if it were it would contradict other passages. Sometimes we fail to realize that even many commentaries and even some instances in Strong's, the definitions are tainted by a protestant perspective. Hope this answers your question a little better.
Anony Jon
Wow, all I can say about this mess in UCG is, way to go. I'm reminded again of why I left. I don't need an organization to define my relationship with God, nor do I need one to tell me what to do. This is God's job. WCG / UCG ministers always told me "we don't do the calling, God does". Great, then that means all you need to do is keep a church going, and try not to scare everyone off.
I'm sorry to say that in posting this, that I'm not 100% sure what's going on in the church right now.
Here's the best advice anyone can give. Do you want a church for people? Do you want to provide a basic means for people to come to God and the truth of God's laws? Good. THEN KNOCK THE CRAP OFF!